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Please see the reply between the lines below. In the event the server converts
the reply to text and makes it difficult to separate the replies from your original
points, a clean copy will be located at http://fathersmanifesto.net/colossians214.htm
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Israelite] How does God treat
lawbreakers?
Please post large studies and articles to the blog which is now open at http://fathersmanifesto.net/israelite/blog_all.php?page=1&paged=2
As Christians we are the brides of God, and thus,
Jesus. If we look at items 2181, and
particularly
2184 we will see that whordom is not of the
flesh,
but of idolatry, or adultery -
fornication. When God
accused the Israelites of whoredom He meant
thier
turning away from Him by either practicing
idolatry
or mixing their seed with the heathen, which
act is
This is a subject that needs much research to under-
stand. We notice that Jesus did not
forgive the sins
of the prostitute because she sold herself to
her
own people, from which a bastard cannot be
born.
We can see throughout the New Testament that
Jesus was quick to forgive the sins of many
people,
even though they did not ask Him to, but in the
case of the prostitute He merely failed to
condemn
her, because her sin was not of significant
stature
to require full forgiveness.
The brainwashing received by most people by their
"clerics, of all denominations, is hard to
erase, and
the longer one has been associated with the
freaks
the harder it is to have them consider
alternatives
of their beliefs, regardless of the concrete
proof
that is provided them. Social taboos are
not nec-
essisarily great sins against God, but where do
we
draw the line? I think the question can
legitimately
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Israelite] How does God treat
lawbreakers?
Please post large studies and articles to the blog which is now open at http://fathersmanifesto.net/israelite/blog_all.php?page=1&paged=2
Interesting reply Arnold...John?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 5:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Israelite] How does God treat
lawbreakers?
Please post large studies and articles to the blog which is now open at http://fathersmanifesto.net/israelite/blog_all.php?page=1&paged=2
John, TEN QUICK QUESTIONS.
(1) Where have I defended sodomites, that they might
continue in sin?
The problem, Arnold, is that by removing God's penalty for
capital crimes from the equation, you abolish God's Law. There's no practical way to
uphold the Torah if the penalties outlined by God for violating the Torah aren't
upheld. It may make you feel good that some operational portion of God's Law has
changed, but Jesus Christ and God themselves said they cannot change, ever.
If you believe one of the Disciples or Apostles attempted to
change it, then throw him out and go back to the red-letter portion of Jesus' words.
(2) So you do not believe " "Wherefore
I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men".
Would this not make you an unbeliever? You have said that a zebra cannot change its
stripes, which would mean that a person cannot ever repent and be forgiven in your view.
At the risk of belaboring the point about Colossians 2:14, let me
repost the Scripture that you apparently have never replied to:
"God wiped out the charges that were against us for
disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross".
[Contemporary English Version]
It's still not clear if you've
ever read this, Arnold, which is another reason that all of this will be posted
to http://fathersmanifesto.net/colossians214.htm .
We've gone to great lengths to study the original Greek with many Greek
experts who've unilaterally concluded that the KJV translation was
originally *correct*, but that modern English has confused that original clarity.
iow, while there are some
problems with the CEV translation, the tense of "wiped out" and "were
against", and the meaning of "us", are correct.
Read: all manner
of PRIOR sin and blasphemy, except polluting the holy seed [blasphemy of the
spirit], WAS forgiven, of **men** [see http://fathersmanifesto.net/ish.htm
for a definition of which "men" were referenced here].
(3) On what basis are your own sins forgiven other than by mercy and
grace?
I have quoted James 2:13 three times, yet
you will to not believe it -"For he shall have judgment
without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment".
This very chapter tells you exactly
what mercy is being addressed:
 | Abraham obeyed God about sacrificing his own
son [and whom God chose "Because that Abraham
obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Gen 26:5". |
| Rehab the harlot whose family was the
only one not destroyed by the Israelites because she helped them conquer the city.
|
| Rich men who God said will not have priority
over poor men. |
It's NOT a license for sodomites to escape
the punishment they so richly deserve, nor are sodomites even mentioned in this
chapter. The sense of the following verse is that adultery is an even worse sin
than murder (and it's understood by those who've studied the Scripture closely that sodomy
is an even worse sin than that).
Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not
commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.
(4) So you believe Jesus was wrong to eat with sinners?
If Jesus had eaten with sodomites,
non-Israelites, anyone who had committed "murder" in the "kawdash"
[Strong's #7523] sense, or adulterers in the sense of adulterating the holy seed, then
Jesus could never have been a pure sacrifice to God without blemish, could He?
http://fathersmanifesto.net/kill.htm
(5) No penalty for prostitution? Everyone suffers! You
are wrong too because there is a penalty!
Lev 19:29, " Do
not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom,
and the land become full of wickedness".
Why post a Scripture which doesn't
prescribe a penalty for prostitution then claim that there's a penalty?
Lev.21:7, "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane
herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire".
Are you a priest, Arnold? If not, then why
didn't you post the Scripture which prescribes a penalty for your daughter if she
becomes a prostitute? Could it be because there's no such penalty?
Deut 22:21, "Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door
of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones
that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s
house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you". Methinks being stoned
to death is a stiff penalty! As tough as that against homosexuals!!
Again, Arnold, this is not referring to a
prostitute, but to an Israelite woman who claimed to be a virgin in order to
entrap a man into marrying her by making him and his (and her) parents think he was
marrying a virgin.
Do you know why you can't find the penalty for
prostitution? Because there is none.
(6) So because you believe prostitution carries no penalty, do you go
to whore houses, or think it is OK for others to do so?
We should restrict this to an exegesis of God's Word,
Arnold, and avoid emotional outbursts about our personal opinions.
(7) "Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the
sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the
temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will
have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless".
(8) Do you believe in circumcising male children of the eighth day? Would
you do it on the Sabbath?
(9) Do you believe with the Pharisees that Jesus was guilty for healing on the
Sabbath?
You've certainly followed this forum closely enough by now to
realize that there isn't a pharisee on this forum who would agree with a single word that
came out of the mouths of the despicable jews who crucified Jesus, whom Jesus said were
confounding the Word of God by imposing their "traditions of the elders":
Jesus replied,
"And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? Matthew 15:3
Making
the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many
such like things do ye. Mark 7:13
Wouldn't you agree that it would be awfully
hypocritical for Jesus to claim that the pharisees "break the command of
God" and were "making the word of God of none effect", and then turn right
around and do exactly the same thing Himself?
The "command of God" and the
"word of God" are the Torah, right?
(10) Overall you seem to be saying, "Thou art his disciple; but we are
Moses’ disciples"? That gives me a problem!
Arnold, wasn't it Jesus, not Moses, who spoke the following
words?:
But heaven and earth
will come to an end before the smallest tittle of The Torah may be
dropped out. Luke 16:17
But the mixed
multitude who knoweth not the Torah are cursed, John 7:49
But we
know that the Torah is good, if a man use it lawfully;1Ti 1:8
For circumcision verily
profiteth, if thou keep the Torah: but if thou be a breaker of the law,
thy circumcision is made uncircumcision, Romans 2:25
Do
we then make void The Torah through faith? By no means: but we establish The Torah, Romans 3:31
But the Torah is holy, and its
orders are holy, upright, and good. Rom 7:12
Love
worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] fully preaching the
Torah, Rom 13:10
Do not think that I am come to destroy The Torah, or the
prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fully preach*, Matthew 5:17
Yes, it is a big problem because you do not seem to understand,"For Moses
truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your
brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be
destroyed from among the people".
We're confident, Arnold, that no place in the Word of God will
you find that this prophet is to be a false prophet, one who intends to break
the command of God, one who would dare to make the Word of God of none effect. And
if you do ever find such a prophet, the Scripture is explicit about what your obligation
would be as a true heir of the everlasting covenant God made with Abraham through Jacob:
Deu 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon
him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I
have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that
prophet shall die.
Nor do you agree with, "Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus,
sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities",
and that "every one of you" includes homosexuals that were not given
over to it by God. So tell me if you are going to continue on as Moses'
disciple or become Jesus' disciple, so I know where I stand.
Unfortunately, Arnold, you want us to believe that God made
a mistake, changed His mind, or was just plain flat STUPID when He wrote:
Lev 20:13 If a man has sexual relations with another
man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.
I was going to ask why you had so little
faith in the Word of God, but it's now apparent that you literally HATE the Word of God,
and will go to great lengths to discredit, abolish, or erase it from memory.
With respect - Arnold.
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