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Evolutionists, Pack Mentality,
Mass Hysteria, and False Dichotomies
The following post from the thread "God, Order,
& Evolution" on the usenet provides some insight into how
"evolutionists" attempt to analyze the information before them, how they jump to
conclusions not based on the facts, and how they attempt to establish one-way debate
rules. In this single post, coming from a person claiming to be a Christian, are 26
false statements, 10 known lies, 14 ad hominems, 9 facts, and 4 "I hate
its". It's a classic demonstration of how "evolutionists" stir up the
mass hysteria which misleads everyone. But being accurate on 9 of 63 points is an
accuracy rate of 14.3%, which is most likely greater than the accuracy rate of the
proponents of "theory of evolution" in general.
False Statements = 26
Lies = 10
Ad hominems = 14
Facts = 9
I hate its = 4
Total points = 63
Sigh. I know. But I tried correcting him on his
mathematics. He *knows* he
is ignorant, but he will keep trying anyway, as if the repetition of error
would somehow evolve into a coherent and logical argument against
evolution.
I tried appealing to his Christian nature to stop lying.
Evidently he
doesn't have a Christian nature, since he won't stop lying.
I tried appealing to his sense of self-respect, since no self-respecting
person would knowingly make such a fool of themselves. Either he has no
self-respect, or he has a martyr complex.
From a prior post, I gather he has a 6-year old daughter, so
he is at least
a young adult, probably married.
But if he is as unreasonable with his
family as he is to others, he won't be married for long. He
probably will
have a hard time keeping a job. Such
attitudes and unreasonableness cannot
simply be directed in a single area, but must indeed bleed out to every area
of his life.
So agreed. Such vocal and proud ignorance must be combated.
But I mourn for
this young person. He indicates that he wants
to serve his God, but he will
not pursue the truth and justice that God requires. He revels in his lies
and unfounded accusations. He revels in his ignorance. If he
does not wake
up soon, his life will be misspent. A pity.
Raymond E. Griffith
John, I did not refer to the private email deliberately. However, the fact
that you were publicly corrected for your incorrect use of
mathematics, yet
you continued to use a tool of which you had little apparent
knowledge. You
*must* have known you were incorrect. Furthermore, your refusal to quote
sources for your mathematics showed either you were ignorant in how you
calculated the numbers, or had merely pulled them out of the
air (hoping no
one would notice).
> You are LYING when
> you say that I am lying, and you know it.
No sir. You produce the most wild and unfounded accusations
against those
who believe in evolution. You must certainly know that those
are lies. You
have no supporting statements or documents for those accusations, AFAIK,
considering you ignore calls for such things.
Furthermore, if you "made up" a probability out of
whole cloth (thinking
that a few zeros here or there wouldn't matter), then that was a lie, too.
One example of your lies is as follows:
> "Evolutionists" are the folks who "think" that chimpanzees and
humans are
> the same "species" or had a "common ancestor" simply because
their DNA is
> "98.5% similar".
Now you couched it with "or had a common ancestor", but you inferred that
evolutionists think chimpanzees and humans are the same "species". You know
that is not true. You have no statements to support such an accusation. It
is a lie.
Here is another example:
> It seems that no "evolutionist" is even aware of how inaccurate carbon
> dating is, or if they are, they sure don't want to talk about it.
Had you read the literature, you would have known it was a lie
when you said
it. But let us suppose you did not know when you first made the accusation.
It still was a lie. But let us be generous here. What makes
the lie worse is
that you were called on the accusation, yet you continued to repeat it, as
if repetition of this would make it a truth.
You also said that evolutionists had only carbon dating as a
tool for
dating. That was a lie. You should have
known better.
Now sir, these are just a few of the lies you have told, in the last few
posts.
Here is one more you said:
> You are saying
> that you are proud that the US scored dead last in 12th grade TIMSS math and
> almost as low in TIMSS science, and will do anything to preserve that status
> quo.
They said nothing of the kind. And you know it.
Now you can take this before the Lord any way you like, but He won't let you
off the hook. Telling untruths about those who may not know the Lord is just
as much lying as telling untruths about those who know the Lord.
Now you *could* admit to it, and ask forgiveness. I believe 1
John 1:9 tells
us that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins.
> It's the typical reaction of
> "evolutionists" who can't support their "religious beliefs" to
resort to
> character assassination when they run out of facts.
While I have seen some of what you call character assassination
on the other
ngs (which I don't frequent), I have seen actual character assassination by
the "creationists" on the group. Inexcusable behavior for
Christians! So
what if a person who is a nonChristian acts in a bad manner? Christians
never should. But they do, and frequently.
And your refusal to see your own fault in the matter is inexcusable.
When
even unbelievers can see that you are blind, how can you ever hope to lead
them? If you taunt (you have, you know), then how will you ever get them to
listen?
Even if you are speaking the truth, *how* you speak the truth makes a
difference!
> It's the typical reaction of
> "evolutionists" who can't support their "religious beliefs" to
resort to
> character assassination when they run out of facts.
Who said I was an evolutionist? I certainly *never* said that. You really
don't know anything about me, except that I hate it when those
who call
themselves Christians show themselves to be so terribly ignorant.
I hate it
when lies are used as a defense of anything -- even if they are "defending
the truth".
I hate it that you are so ignorant of
the basics of science. I have publicly
counseled you to become better educated. You ignore it.
There are a lot of questions I can't answer either way. I am gathering
information. I am studying, asking the Lord to help me as I try to know His
creation better. What I can't explain, I admit to. It is no shame to admit
that you don't know something. In fact, admitting ignorance where it exists
can generate respect.
Then again, stubbornly refusing to admit your ignorance when
you evidently
*are* will make people think you are a fool. That is a pity.
> That's just the tool
> of the trade for the writers on the talk.origin usenet
> http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html
>
> This is why only 16% of the American population are "evolutionists", and it
> sure looks like this is the left side of the bell curve.
>
At one time, 98-99% of the nation of Israel worshipped Baal. Their
overwhelming numbers did not make it right. You cannot use
popularity as an
argument.
But then, you know that too. You
would decry using popularity as an argument
in a heartbeat if it were shown that most people believe in some form of
evolution.
The fact that you are a Christian means that you are going to be held to a
higher accountability than anyone who does not know the Lord.
If I have been rude to you, it is only because you *would not* listen or
learn the lessons you need to learn to be effective. You may not realize it
(although most people who have read my posts would see this), but
every post
I have directed toward you has been to direct you toward the knowledge,
understanding, and use of the truth.
I have never asked you to accept evolution. I have asked you
to know enough
about the subject you so viciously despise
to be able to talk about it
accurately.
I simply hate it when Christians do not have enough regard for
their God to
be made fools of unnecessarily. I am a Christian. As one
Christian to (I
hope) another, I urge you to be careful to say the truth and only the truth.
No wild statements. No nastiness. No taunting -- no matter what anyone else
does. Have your references in order. If you make a mistake, admit it (yes,
even to evolutionists!).
If you claim that evolutionists make a statement, have references in order.
But be concise and accurate. Long quotations without at least annotating
them are useless and a waste of bandwidth. You need to be willing to
understand that evolution has its "flavors" as well. Not all evolutionists
come to the same conclusions -- just as not all creationists come to the
same conclusions. You need to be willing to admit that as well. It is only
honest.
Be willing to reason. Ask questions. Try at least to understand why someone
believes what they do about science -- even if you do not agree with them.
If you don't understand it, how will you ever hope to convince them? Will it
hurt you to learn some math, or some chemistry? Will it hurt you to learn
about the potassium argon dating method and why they think it works? Will it
hurt you to take a gentler position, so that you are not an offence?
I do not say to give up truth. But you must know that you do not have it
all. I certainly do not! And every evolutionist I have met has been willing
to admit that he does not know it all. Do not be wise in your own eyes. The
Scriptures declare that to be a sin.
As for character assassination, you have been doing that in a lot of posts
yourself. Quite a nasty character you have shown yourself to be in some
posts. Quite stubborn in areas you should not be, as well. I hope that you
can prove me to be wrong about your character. I'd like to think better
things of you.
Of course, if you want to selectively pick and choose from my counsel and
accuse me of whatever, I can't stop you. But if you are a Christian, I would
hope to see better things from you in the future. Your choice. How are
others going to see you?
Sincerely,
Raymond E. Griffith
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