So tell us, oh wise one: was Thomas Jefferson a Christian?
A) YES.
or
B) NO.
> Well, that pretty much settles the question, John - based on what you've
> quoted below and my on observations, there is, apparent, no living example
> of a "real" Christian.
>
> mark
> fm wrote:
> >
> > So tell us, oh wise one: was Thomas Jefferson a Christian?
> >
> > A) YES.
> >
> > or
> >
> > B) NO.
> >
> By your definition, NO. He didn't believe Jesis was divine, just
> a very intelligent rabbi who made some wise ethical observations.
> He couldn't get elected dogcatcher today if his opponents got hold
> of some of his letters describing his position.
> --George Acton
>
>
> fm <manifesto@christianparty.net> wrote in
message
> news:ac217.52877$0e3.47289498@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com...
> >
> > So tell us, oh wise one: was Thomas Jefferson a Christian?
> >
> > A) YES.
> >
> > or
> >
> > B) NO.
> By your own definitions - B) NO. Or are you realy saying that you do not
> believe in the divinity of Christ, inter alia?
>
> On 5 Jul 2001 18:00:03 -0400, "fm" <manifesto@christianparty.net> wrote:
>
> >You can't presume to tell a Christian what his belief is, and then proceed
> >to demean Mr. Jefferson based on that presumption.
> >
> >Just answer the question based on what you think are the facts at hand.
> >"yes", or "no"?
> >
> >John Knight
>
> You first.
>
> Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ?
>
> Yes or no, John
>
> Dorothy
> "fm" <manifesto@christianparty.net>
wrote in message news:<0t517.52996$0e3.47412671@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com>...
> > "George Acton" <gacton@softdisk.com>
wrote in message
> > news:3B44CBDB.7B47@softdisk.com...
> > > fm wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So tell us, oh wise one: was Thomas Jefferson a Christian?
> > > >
> > > > A) YES.
> > > >
> > > > or
> > > >
> > > > B) NO.
> > > >
> > > By your definition, NO. He didn't believe Jesis was divine, just
> > > a very intelligent rabbi who made some wise ethical observations.
> > > He couldn't get elected dogcatcher today if his opponents got hold
> > > of some of his letters describing his position.
> > > --George Acton
> > >
> >
> > You haven't got a clue what anyone else's religious beliefs are, so quit
> > squirrelling around: was Mr. Jefferson a Christian, or not?
> >
> > John Knight
> >
> I should know better than to wade into any discussion in which you are
> participating, but:
>
> No. By *my* definition, Jefferson was not a Christian. I'm not quite
> clear on whether he was a Christian by *his own* definition. On the
> one hand, he at least once asserted that "if I could not go to heaven
> but with a company, I would not go at all." This seems to indicate an
> extreme disinterest in aligning himself with, much less subordinating
> his will to, any claimant to the title "body of Christ." And, of
> course, this is the man who famously edited the New Testament to
> remove all references to the miraculous, leaving only the ethical
> teachings.
>
> On the other hand, of course, he apparently continued to use the word
> "Christian" to refer to ethical teachings and practices of which he
> approved. He thought Jesus was a great moral teacher, but I do not
> think he felt that Jesus's teachings drew special authority merely
> *because* Jesus taught them. He saw, I think, Christianity as being
> as old as creation, and quite distinct from the creed of any church or
> religious group. He does not seem to have had much use for creeds.
>
> Note that Jefferson did not see his own religion as depending on
> either miracles, or a unique or exclusive revelation from God, or
> membership in any particular body of like believers. This is rather a
> large distinction between his religion, and the religion of most
> people throughout history who've called themselves "Christians." I
> think C.S. Lewis had a point: if, when we say "Christian," we mean
> being (or trying sincerely to be) a good person, then we should *say*
> "being a good person." Otherwise, we deprive ourselves of a word for
> a particular creedal position (okay, a very large set of particular
> creedal positions), and add to an already extensive list of synonyms
> for "someone whose behavior I approve of." If Jefferson used the word
> "Christian" to describe himself, then I disagree with him. But I am
> not certain he *did* so describe himself.
>
> -- Steven J.
>
> On 5 Jul 2001 14:18:46 -0400, "fm" <manifesto@christianparty.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >So tell us, oh wise one: was Thomas Jefferson a Christian?
> >
> >A) YES.
> >
> >or
> >
> >B) NO.
> >
> >John Knight
> >
>
> knight makes the assumption every christian thinks america is a
> christian country ruled by christian laws.
>
> wrong.
>
>
> fm mumbled in alt.education:
> On 5 Jul 2001 03:50:33 -0400
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Idiot. Jefferson writes: "I am a real
Christian", and you IDIOTS
> > "interpret" this to mean that Jefferson was
not a real Christian!
>
> As usual, John, you take a quote out of context and twist its meaning to
> support your own hairbrained, idiotic interpretation.
>
> > What you are doing here is calling Mr. Jefferson a LIAR,
and/or
> > deciding that you know more about his religious faith
than you do
> > (which of course you do not, cannot, and never will).
>
> I'm not calling Jefferson a liar, you idiot. I'm calling you an idiot. I
> didn't say that what Jefferson wrote was a lie. I'm saying that what YOU
> write is a lie. Comprehend the difference? As for Jefferson's religious
> faith, I didn't "decide" I know more about it than he did. Jefferson
never
> made his religious beliefs a secret, and his writing make clear what his
> feeling toward the Church and religion are. And, once again, this isn't my
> ''opinion'' or something I've made up out of thin air. Jefferson scholars
> don't even contest this idea.
>
